Putin doesn't seem to be the "talking" type. Before Ukraine and Russia start talking, Putin is going to have to order his soldiers to stop shooting. I don't see that happening as long as it depends on Putin to make it happen.

Should we just psy Scholtz and Macron to shut up this silly statements? What they need to just stay silent? Peace Nobel Prize?

I honestly don't understand the fuss about Macron's attempts to diplomacy. It hasn't helped so far, but unless somebody can explain to me how it has made things worse, I hope he keeps doing it. At least he's keeping the door open, which makes it that much easier for Putin to give in, even if it's just a little. We Dutch have a proverb for that:

No is what you have, yes is what you can get.

The idea that this war can only be ended if Russia is crushed, seems very primitive to me. The majority of wars ends because of diplomacy, why would this be different? And Macron is very much correct if he says:

We, Europeans, we share a continent, and geography is stubborn: It turns out that at the end of it, Russia is still there.

Unless of course we should aim to destroy and conquer Russia altogether, which would be a very bad idea for a multitude of reasons.

"Eventually" can have a very long tail. Russia will out-last Putin. The question is... what will that Russia look like?

@Hans van Zijst When the war is ended, there will be a meeting. International leaders will be present. It will be called diplomacy. Power and only power is what got both sides to the fait accompli table.

The war in Europe and the war in Japan (two wars called WWII) were not settled via diplomacy, they were settled by raw force, and then made acceptable via largesse in conditions, after the war -- the Marshall Plan, etc.

Macron, running around talking about diplomacy may improve his image in France and some parts of Europe, but it's little more than showboating. Of course, his act is more aesthetically pleasing than Trump's, but an act it is.

WWI allegedly was settled via diplomacy. It was the direct cause of WWII.

Putin only understands power. Only. Power.

@Lee Rothstein

Macron, running around talking about diplomacy may improve his image in France and some parts of Europe, but it's little more than showboating.

I see things from a European perspective, where you look at it through American glasses, that would explain at least a part of our different points of view.

I haven't seen any hints that Macron's attempts have made the situation any worse, so what's the problem? What makes you believe he's only acting, trying to look like a great statesman? The experience with your previous president can be a big part of that feeling, but I don't think Trump and Macron have much in common. Besides, Macron was just re-elected for his second term, he doesn't need a spike in popularity for a while.

His attempts may or may not make a diffence, the future will tell. It's pretty difficult to only do things that really make a difference. Sure, NATO could declare war on Russia and try to fix things with a lot of violence (not meant as an insult, but that's the common American way of dealing with things), but I'm pretty sure that is something that will make the situation worse. A lot worse, for the entire world. The simple claim that Putin only understands power, doesn't change that.

What's your suggestion, how should we try to end the war? What options do we have?

As long as Putin can hide behind ongoing diplomacy, he can continue to destroy the Ukraine. You obviously, are not paying attention to his comments about Peter the "Great".

@Lee Rothstein So what should we do then?

So, the reason why Macron should shut up, is because Putin -who only understands power- can hide behind diplomacy to carry on with his war, is that it? As soon as Macron throws in the towel, Putin will change his tune?

I'll go back to my first remark here: I honestly don't understand the fuss.

Yes, that is definitely true, @Clara Listensprechen. Most like him have UGLY endings.

Yes - power is the fulcrum that tips us back from war. But these wars did not end with complete and total subjugation. They hit points where leaders (such as they were) agreed that the tide was against them and it was time to talk. Power set the time. But diplomacy is what took over from military power at that time.

Don't get me wrong. I suspect that time isn't now. But I'm not sure its damaging to say to Russia (if not Putin) that the time can be whenever they're ready to stop bleeding.

👍 @Clara Listensprechen

@Paul Hosking Your understanding of WWII is extremely limited.

@Lee Rothstein I'll admit that I'm being somewhat... generous towards the Axis powers in that statement.

@Paul Hosking: "Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?"

explain to me how it has made things worse, I hope he keeps doing it.

Russia cannot get any things fro EU or USA as Ucraine is a side if war, and none of this countries are able to get from Ucraine anything except what's Ucraine need. Probably only USA has enough influence on Ucraine to suggest anything. So in that situation France ha exactly zero influence both on Ucraine, NATO and probably even on Europe position about this War.

Why Macon call Putin: because he wanted PR for internal France purposes as there is enormous amount of idiots in France who just cherish Russia for being the only just socialist country of the world. There eve communists in France probably having Stalin as his leader still.

Why Putin answer the call: because there is a lot if idiots in Russia believing Putin flight with Nazis at Ucraine, it saving Russia from NATO aggression. And as NATO is active mostly via Latvia, Estonia, Lotva, Romania, and mostly, Poland, it is very convenient for Putin, for his internal propaganda, to have argument that part of the NATO concerns Russia arguments worth of discussions, except extremist and racists countries below. Which will be next Russia target, so as France agree, it is of course important. ( Who cares what France president said Putin? Who know what Macron said?).

As Germany still cooperate with Russia it is clear that this makes NATO divided, nuanced and justified on Putin actions, except small group of exotic countries fascist post communists racists antisemitic and anti ecological countries which do not want immigrants of color and where everyone wanted this war. Do you noticed this is exactly the message we hear from various EU political circles as well? Since at least 20 years? Please notice this correlation. In this case it is manufactured by Putin's trolls cooperation organized in various "Klima und..." Influential organizations financed by fossil fuels industry like Nord Stream 2. Notice it is influential enough to make fossil fuels ecological on EU levels on request.

👍 @Clara Listensprechen

@Kazimierz KurzTo the extent that I understood what you said: ✔️

Yeah, diplomacy never gets you anywhere...

Let's agree to disagree here.