Pity that when the ad company says I can't use an ad blocker, my alternative is to use… a browser by a *second* ad company, that has spyware and an AI chatbot block in, and that looks… I dunno. *waves arm* "like that".
(So flat. So flat it makes Chrome's recent interfaces look rich and helpful. And yet oddly, it also has HUGE aggro scrollbars on Windows that it doesn't display on Linux. Not sure what that's about.)
Basically I just want a web browser that looks and acts the way Chrome did at the start of 2023. That's not Firefox. But it's actually not Chrome anymore either idk
This gets to the heart of a thing I find deeply annoying about modern software, which is that you, as a user, have little to no say over when (or if) it gets updated.
It used to be that if a company came out with a shitty version of something, it didn't sell. This happened all the time! MS-DOS 4.x was godawful, and so people simply did not buy or upgrade to it. They kept using the old version. And Microsoft saw the plummeting sales and fixed their shit.
That's a dynamic that largely doesn't exist anymore, and software is the worse for it.
- Software companies write insecure software. - Because the software is insecure, updates are mandatory. It would be absurd and dangerous to opt out. - Software companies use the mandatory updates to push their business goals, bundle software you don't want, block software you do want, etc.
you might want to give floorp a try before you officially switch to firefox.
i haven't switched yet, but floorp is insanely customizable, even more than chromium. i tried it for a bit, and personally my favorite thing was the ability to add an edge-like sidebar, and have the content padded with rounded corners. also, if i remember correctly, they remove the genAI chatbots added by firefox.
i think the name is a bit silly, but otherwise it seems like a pretty solid browser.
24 hours in to switching to Firefox I am already super annoyed by both missing features and misfeatures you can't turn off
- Tap on a favicon and the tab mutes. You can't turn this off unless you ALSO turn off the "tab is playing audio" icon, which is useful.
- Accidentally tap "alt" and the whole interface moves around to add a menu. Why!! I thought the menu appears in the ≡ menu! That's your idiom! Have the courage of your convictions!!
I've already been annoyed by these issues on Linux, but now I'm annoyed here too.
Maybe I should give Vivaldi a try, but Chromium was very buggy for me on Linux so I've been avoiding it cuz it's KINDA nice to be using the same browser on both OSes. It might be https://issues.chromium.org/issues/40272818 is fixed now (it's ambiguous) and if they actually did resolve that maybe I can give Vivaldi on Linux a go.
If you do decide to use Vivaldi, I'd be curious to hear what you think about it. I agree re: Firefox and Chrome. I've been using Arc for a while, but it doesn't sound like it'll be maintained in the longer term. Not sure where to go from here in terms of a primary browser choice. 😢
@elazar i was 100% happy with chrome except (1) i wish they hadn't moved the "v" menu from the right to the left. (2) no ublock origin = no me using product
Once I adjusted to them, I grew to really like some of Arc's features and UI improvements on Chrome. Doesn't seem like any mainstream browsers are doing much in those areas these days. 😢
Isn't the alt behaviour pretty standard windows bullshit?
I've seen a bunch of other apps do this, the only ones that don't either always have the standard windows toolbar visible, or completely override the default OS behaviour with something custom, which I'd say is a worse UX choice.
well I just had to go open every different all I could to test how they handle this.
Older applications that feature a classic windows toolbar do the Firefox thing, especially .net apps. Usually the bar isn't hidden so no relayout. Electron apps by default do the same, although the bar is often hidden, so relayout. Custom apps move focus to the options menu, like chrome and Spotify. New Microsoft apps, like windows 11 explorer cycle between toolbars.
@SudoCat I would have presumed it is more common, as this sort of reads like an accessibility thing - though I will admit that it has been a while since I have used a screen reader, this sounds like it might be intended for those.
@SudoCat As I understand, that is usually for web browser elements not using "aria-hidden=true"?
Then again, I'm unsure of how to make non-web stuff accessible in software development, and I probably should look into that.
Was mostly thinking that this makes the menu accessible and able to be selected, but I can see it instead just toggling the hamburger menu and saving on layout issues.
I'm not sure there ever really were any convictions involved. Hamburger menus were forced on Firefox by the expectations of users coming from other browsers, but old-time Firefox users would be annoyed if the regular menu were removed.
It doesn't, though. There are some things in the old-style menu that AFAIK you can't find in the hamburger menus.
For one example, the sometimes very useful View|Page Style|No Style which lets you see a web page with all CSS and Javascript disabled.
This sometimes lets you access pages where the content is blocked by a paywall or just by bad web design. (People who style walls of text in gray on barely lighter gray, for example.)
Agreed, I'm just saying there really are some useful things in there that you can't get to other ways, and it should be accessible via those other paths.
A couple others include File|Open (which you can at least do via Control-O), File|Email (open your email client to send the URL you're on as a link) and I think some of the stuff under the Tools menu.
I don't know why these aren't worked into the menus most people now use.
I've honestly forgotten what firefox actually looks like cus I've userchrom'd it within an inch of its life just to be able to look at the internet without feeling actively nauseated by the user interface.
Yes to the first one and I honestly don't know about the second one, that's prolly something you'd have to try to find a setting for rather than something that can be changed with a userchrome.css-file.
I'm not the one to ask on how to set that up though, I did it once basically following a tutorial and modifying a userchrome script I found on github to work for my purposes and mozilla seem to have made it harder to do since.
those issues got me to start using a standalone thing for bookmarks, yacy to search and servo for most browsing. there's also some other browser work in progress that's not chrome, but it's not out yet. it's unfortunate wh…t's been happ'ning at mozilla
no real complaints from me so far, given the development state. i have a couple extensions i'd like to see go over to it but things like my adblock are standalone so i'm not too affected in that regard.
I hate the tiny scrollbars on Linux, I didn't know Windows got real ones 😭 it'd be nice if you could turn them off if you don't like them but I need a surface I can actually see
@TeddyRuxpin MAYBE Google will never abuse this power, and they won't try to use their update veto to prevent YouTube blocker-blocker rules from working.
But it will still slow down adblock updates. And I don't trust it.
@Owlor Thanks. If you don't find it don't worry about it, I'll ask around.
I'd also be curious about anything that can move the "drawer" over to the right with the "v", or just in general anything that makes the difference between the "Drawer" and the "V" more logical.
Friendica software. To learn how to make your own, go look at https://friendi.ca
![Ad blockers violate YouTube's Terms of Service
It looks like you may be using an ad blocker. Video playback is blocked unless YouTube is allowlisted or the ad blocker is disabled.
Ads allow YouTube to be used by billions worldwide.
You can go ad-free with YouTube Premium, and creators can still get paid from your subscription.
[Allow youtube ads] [Try YouTube Premium]
[Not using an ad blocker? Report issue]](https://cache.treehouse.systems/media_attachments/files/113/686/894/003/110/998/original/88f9d29efab11bf5.png "Ad blockers violate YouTube's Terms of Service
It looks like you may be using an ad blocker. Video playback is blocked unless YouTube is allowlisted or the ad blocker is disabled.
Ads allow YouTube to be used by billions worldwide.
You can go ad-free with YouTube Premium, and creators can still get paid from your subscription.
[Allow youtube ads] [Try YouTube Premium]
[Not using an ad blocker? Report issue]")
