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M.S. Bellows, Jr. mastodon (AP)
Hey, you know those folks who periodically pop up claiming both parties are equally bad and even if voting third party helps Trump win it would just hasten the necessary collapse of neoliberalism?

I have a new answer for them. It's a quote from William L. Shirer's "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich," which I'm currently reading:

"The cardinal error of the Germans who opposed Nazism was their failure to unite against it. At the crest of their popular strength, in July 1932, the National Socialists had attained but 37 per cent of the vote. But the 63 per cent of the German people who expressed their opposition to Hitler were much too divided and shortsighted to combine against a common danger which they must have known would overwhelm them unless they united, however temporarily, to stamp it out. The Communists, at the behest of Moscow, were committed to the last to the silly idea of first destroying the Social Democrats, the Socialist trade unions and what middle-class democratic forces there were, on the dubious theory that although this would lead to a Nazi regime it would be only temporary and would bring inevitably the collapse of capitalism, after which the Communists would take over and establish the dictatorship of the proletariat. Fascism, in the Bolshevik Marxist view, represented the last stage of a dying capitalism; after that, the Communist deluge!”

That didn't work then, and it won't work now. Politics in a democracy IS compromise, and the lesser of two evils is less evil.
Netux mastodon (AP)
sounds like you need to convince blue Maga to vote green then.
M.S. Bellows, Jr. Private Message mastodon (AP)
@Lassielmr Homophobic tripe I'll agree with. As for the rest, I'm still reading it (as I have several other histories offering different perspectives), but I'll take it with a grain of salt. When did you last read it, and what would you recommend as an alternative?
libramoon mastodon (AP)
and lesser may well mean not evil at all in comparison to a clear evil
M.S. Bellows, Jr. reshared this.
M.S. Bellows, Jr. mastodon (AP)
@libramoon Agreed, but good luck telling that to the Puritarians about any Democrat. I guarantee there are people out there who are offended by Tim Walz's "public policy explained via auto maintenance" videos because his '79 Harvester Scout runs on fossil fuels, making him a neoliberal climate monster.
A collage of photos of vice presidential candidate Tim Walz in his turquoise 1979 International Harvester Scout.
M.S. Bellows, Jr. reshared this.
Mark T. Tomczak mastodon (AP)
@libramoon ... while they eat food from the grocery store that teleported there, no doubt.
M.S. Bellows, Jr. mastodon (AP)
@mark @libramoon Yes, but the grocery store is a co-op, and vegan hippies handling your food are a sort of filter that removes impurities.
Mark T. Tomczak mastodon (AP)
@libramoon Oh yeah! I was just watching a video on silicon doping; I imagine it's like that. 😉
libramoon mastodon (AP)
while all people suck at times, very few are actually evil
M.S. Bellows, Jr. reshared this.
M.S. Bellows, Jr. Private Message mastodon (AP)
@Lassielmr (Also, Shirer is not wrong on this point.)
There’s always somewhere between 25% and 35% of the population who seek refuge in authority when feeling threatened. As a group, they tend to be frightened, angry, confused, and prone to “catastrophic” thinking …

From @msbellows

https://c.im/users/msbellows/statuses/113211759217258356

Hey, you know those folks who periodically pop up claiming both parties are equally bad and even if voting third party helps Trump win it would just hasten the necessary collapse of neoliberalism?

I have a new answer for them. It's a quote from William L. Shirer's "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich," which I'm currently reading:

"The cardinal error of the Germans who opposed Nazism was their failure to unite against it. At the crest of their popular strength, in July 1932, the National Socialists had attained but 37 per cent of the vote. But the 63 per cent of the German people who expressed their opposition to Hitler were much too divided and shortsighted to combine against a common danger which they must have known would overwhelm them unless they united, however temporarily, to stamp it out. The Communists, at the behest of Moscow, were committed to the last to the silly idea of first destroying the Social Democrats, the Socialist trade unions and what middle-class democratic forces there were, on the dubious theory that although this would lead to a Nazi regime it would be only temporary and would bring inevitably the collapse of capitalism, after which the Communists would take over and establish the dictatorship of the proletariat. Fascism, in the Bolshevik Marxist view, represented the last stage of a dying capitalism; after that, the Communist deluge!”

That didn't work then, and it won't work now. Politics in a democracy IS compromise, and the lesser of two evils is less evil.

M.S. Bellows, Jr.:

Hey, you know those folks who periodically pop up claiming both parties are equally bad and even if voting third party helps Trump win it would just hasten the necessary collapse of neoliberalism?

I have a new answer for them. It's a quote from William L. Shirer's "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich," which I'm currently reading:

"The cardinal error of the Germans who opposed Nazism was their failure to unite against it. At the crest of their popular strength, in July 1932, the National Socialists had attained but 37 per cent of the vote. But the 63 per cent of the German people who expressed their opposition to Hitler were much too divided and shortsighted to combine against a common danger which they must have known would overwhelm them unless they united, however temporarily, to stamp it out. The Communists, at the behest of Moscow, were committed to the last to the silly idea of first destroying the Social Democrats, the Socialist trade unions and what middle-class democratic forces there were, on the dubious theory that although this would lead to a Nazi regime it would be only temporary and would bring inevitably the collapse of capitalism, after which the Communists would take over and establish the dictatorship of the proletariat. Fascism, in the Bolshevik Marxist view, represented the last stage of a dying capitalism; after that, the Communist …
M.S. Bellows, Jr. mastodon (AP)
@drakakis I'm unsure whether you're addressing me or the people I'm critiquing. ?
Coach Pāṇini ® mastodon (AP)
#BenjaminFranklin put it so succinctly at the signing of the Declaration: “We must all hang together…or we’ll hang separately.”
Mx. Luna Corbden reshared this.
Trotsky had a more sensible view on it than most Germans.
he supported a united front against fascism and basically said the commies should defer their revolutionary activities to after fascism was defeated.
M.S. Bellows, Jr. mastodon (AP)
@burnoutqueen Trotsky, the Strasser of Russia. Both still problematic, but Lord, imagine the world if they had succeeded in the '30s instead of Hitler and Stalin.
M.S. Bellows, Jr. reshared this.
Cameron mastodon (AP)
fascinating book! I've listened to the audiobook twice, all 60 or so hours.
M.S. Bellows, Jr. mastodon (AP)
@NorcalGma2 Ha! l'm telling myself that I'm only reading it because I know it has a happy ending. In truth, of course, I'm trying to understand my own country, and am chastened at the realization that the book makes *much* more sense to me now than it would have been years ago.
he was killing other bolsheviks left and right because, though he never said it out right, he understood fascism and he was recognizing the fascists among the bolsheviks. it's the only reason really they fought the nazis —they, as the americans, saw them as competition. Stalin got him killed because he knew he was next in the hit list. too bad Khalo helped in getting him murked. that's why i've always side-eyed her.
This entry was edited (3 months ago)
Like, at least he didn't spearhead the ethnic cleansing of an entire continent or own slaves.
M.S. Bellows, Jr. reshared this.
I have a hard time when people talk about this party or that party.

I don't care what "party" they claim. It's about the person and their record of public service.

#Portland Oregon for example has people who call themselves Democrats and #StreetRoots did a story comparing the local politicians to trump. It's absolutely frightening how often times they use the same words.

Really dumb idea. Stop talking about a party and start talking about individuals... because the "Democrats" in #PDX are making it #Illegal2BHomeless along with many other US Constitution violations.
M.S. Bellows, Jr. mastodon (AP)
@NorcalGma2 Except we're going to beat the motherfuckers and mercilessly drive them into the sea.
M.S. Bellows, Jr. reshared this.
read some time ago she basically thought of herself of working for the greater good of communism when she started a relationship with him. it was all a setup that might actually have involved also the USAGOV cuz he was killed by a Mexican assassin as he was coming to NYC to help with the anarcho-syndicalist movement that was exploding in the city. grock, i can't remember which of the litany of books i have has that story. fascinating.
This entry was edited (3 months ago)
Efon Ekpo mastodon (AP)
What we want is a different candidate to that of the two corrupt major parties.
Again and again, what life has shown us is that we can't always have what we want if at all. That doesn't mean we shouldn't keep trying.
So we vote third party not even expecting to win but with hope of cracking 5 percent someday.
M.S. Bellows, Jr. mastodon (AP)
@efonekpo I understand, really, but cracking 5% isn't the path to change. Duverger's Law is damn near inexorable. It's more productive to (a) fight for reform to the first-past-the-post system and (b) work to make the existing center-left party more liberal. And in THIS election, voting anything other than blue is suicide, even in non-swing states, because the GOP's plan is to steal the election, which will be much harder if everyone sees that the overwhelming majority of Americans voted for Harris.

This (by me a few years ago) may help explain why I'm a (reluctant, but) Democratic partisan: https://wiretaps.typepad.com/eleventydimensional/2016/05/the-elks-the-party-system-solitary-masturbation-and-bernie-or-bust-an-explainer.html
Efon Ekpo mastodon (AP)
@efonekpo I don't believe in working within the two-party system to bring about change. That's mostly thanks to corporate and dark money in politics.
However, I can understand why lots of people think it's a fight worth fighting. Yeah, I agree about the need to reform first past the post.
Rufus J. Cooter mastodon (AP)
TIL!

My fave thing about this place is how much wild stuff folk on here know that I just had absolutely no idea about...
This entry was edited (3 months ago)
People who vote third party or are "undecided" are dumb as a brick.
I am completely fed up with the idea that calling out stupidity is "mean".
No. It isn't.
People who treat elections like they only happen every 4 years and that the 2 parties are the same are illiterate morons who probably shouldn't drive.
DON'T READ CRAP ONLINE LIKE IT'S TRUE. Especially fb. And learn how shit works. Your precious little feelings don't matter. People not dying unnecessarily does.
OWHolmes mastodon (AP)
@NorcalGma2

Norcal ... I spent the bulk of my life wondering how the German people could have been so stupid. With age, I now understand how it happened. However, I can not understand how anyone can think the ending was happy.

Those who put Hitler in power especially and so many others ...
M.S. Bellows, Jr. mastodon (AP)
@raccoona_nongrata At first I thought about arguing with you further, pointing out how silly it is to expect Democrats to vote with parties that have never had political power. But then I took a look more closely at your bio and, tavaresh, you can go fuck yourself. Just: contort yourself until your fist is coming out your mouth through your butt. Goodbye.
Paul mastodon (AP)
"and the lesser of two evils is less evil."

These words should be engraved somewhere prominent and repeated regularly.
M.S. Bellows, Jr. reshared this.
Robert Link mastodon (AP)
You mean people such as Susan Dammit-Janet Sarandon? Yeah, I know 'em.
John A. Wojtowicz mastodon (AP)
Thank you for your post.
Very pertinent. Read three of Shirer's books on Nazis a few years ago. I was quite impressed.

Peace

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