social.outsourcedmath.com

Mike Fraser :Jets: mastodon (AP)
I think a simple change in nomenclature could help Mastodon incredibly. Servers is an inaccurate term and instance is unfamiliar and vague. Both create tension for new users.
Why not simply call Mastodon instances what they are: Communities.
Ask users which Mastodon community they'd like to join. Have community rules, community policy, and community leaders. Not server rules, instance moderators and administrators.

Let me start. Everyone is welcome at our community, https://thecanadian.social
Tim Chambers mastodon (AP)
@KevinMarks

I like that a lot Mark… I’ve been calling them “community servers” in our explainer posts at Indieweb.social
Eugen Rochko mastodon (AP)
We tried this years back, it doesn't work. Servers are not (always) communities. This nomenclature carries with it a lot of associations that are not true or helpful to Mastodon, e.g. that these "communities" are siloed and you need to create separate accounts to join each community, and that you need to condense your identity into one specific hobby to participate in Mastodon. Service provider is a potential candidate for a better term than "server".
Chad :mstdn: mastodon (AP)
@Gargron I think I can see some merit to this in regards to thecanadian.social, mstdn.ca, and other regional instances. I've used the "community" word a few times over the last while and it feels like it's made sense for us... with the extension into the fediverse.
@chad @Gargron I agree as applied to us, but I see Eugen’s point that not every instance functions as a community.
Jon mastodon (AP)
Great question. @Gargron's said his vision is one where instances / servers / whatever you want to call them *don't* add value, they're just a way to access the broader network. That's missing what the fediverse is uniquely good at at, and Mastodon (if it merged in and built on changes from the fork) could be a great platform for -- networked communities -- but at the end of the day he's the BDFL so the code and positioning reflect his vision.

@IPEdmonton @chad
Jon mastodon (AP)
here's the quote by @Gargron I was thinking of, from November 2022

""The ideal system is one where there are a whole bunch of different servers, all roughly the same size, and it doesn’t matter which one you use, because they’re all interconnected."

https://www.theverge.com/23658648/mastodon-ceo-twitter-interview-elon-musk-twitter

@IPEdmonton @chad
Tim Chambers mastodon (AP)
I quibble but I'd say: "doesn't matter" and "add no value" are not exactly synonyms. I read that as it doesn't matter which one you join to talk to all the others. I LOVE the value of seeing my local feed on indieweb.social but it doesn't make a diff in my connectivity. Full quote def seems to be talking about connectivity, not other value.
This entry was edited (12 months ago)
Jon mastodon (AP)
@tchambers Perhaps I'm wrong, if so I'd be delighted to be corrected!

@mike @IPEdmonton @chad
Michael Foster mastodon (AP)
@jdp23 @tchambers @IPEdmonton @chad these points of view aren’t necessarily contradictory. We can enjoy a local feed, be part of a big conversation about the Fediverse and happily join in the #vinyl community, or #SilentSunday. But the big servers risk falling between all of these - which is where the vision of multiple equal sized servers would work better. As to which names to use - it’s tricky for sure!
Jon mastodon (AP)
Agreed the views aren't necessarily contradictory -- both the links I shared elsewhere in the thread emphasize that -- but in practice there are major tensions, especially with finite resources. Mastodon's development has historically favored the "big conversation" view at the expense of the local communities view. Local-only posts and the reduced visibility of the local feed are two high-profile examples.

@michael @tchambers @mike @IPEdmonton @chad
Tim Chambers mastodon (AP)
@jdp23 @michael @IPEdmonton @chad - I think most of those tensions were imagined or hypothetical ones. Good news is that it turns out this did not occur - at least over the last year, show any signs of mastodon social hurting the traffic to other smaller mastodon sites Everyone hummed along.
Global visits to Mastodon social and other mastodon servers over year
Jon mastodon (AP)
Interesting data, thanks! But ...

Measured in terms of monthly active users, .social has gone from about 17.5% of Mastodon's total MAU in May to 27% today.

Of course that's not the only measure of centralization but still it's an important one. So I don't think the concern I expressed back then turned out to be imagined or hypothetical.

EDIT: data comes from fedidb

@michael @mike @IPEdmonton @chad
Tim Chambers mastodon (AP)
@jdp23 @michael @IPEdmonton @chad Is this from FediDB data? "t 17.5% of Mastodon's total MAU in May to 27% today."
Tim Chambers mastodon (AP)
@IPEdmonton @jdp23 @Gargron @chad I for one love checking out Jazz communities, or generative art community based servers to find new posts or new users.
Jon mastodon (AP)
@tchambers Yeah like I say I think it's been a been a huge mistake for Mastodon not to emphasize this more and better support it. But oh well. https://heat-shield.space/mastodon_two_camps.html is a good look at the tensions between the "bigger is better" flat view and the "networked communities" view.

@IPEdmonton @mike @Gargron @chad
Jon mastodon (AP)
Yeah, to me the instance-focused organization is the distinctive feature of the fediverse and the reason I spend so much time here is because it’s the best place to get real-world experience in how it works in practice at a scale that’s big enough to be interesting.but being able to participate as an individual is valuable as well. It’s complex!
@marcelcosta @michael @tchambers @ArtBear @IPEdmonton @chad @darnell @mike
marcelcosta RSS/Atom (via ActivityPub)
The problem that I see for an easy-self-hosting fediverse is that tends to individualism and again eliminates the communal part. For us (the communities I am part of), the server administration is just part of a community growth. While I would say the technical part is not easy nor difficult (at least at small sizes), there are other important things that are discussed, shared and agreed such as how to finance the server costs, how to moderate, how to increase the internal visibility of the members, etc… I seems that the server organization fits so well with the movement organization we need.

I do get that other communities in other parts of the world may have other necessities or priorities, so I respect that, of course.
Jon mastodon (AP)
Yep. The frustrating thing is that the future could be now, it's just a path that hasn't been taken. @darnell had a post a while ago sketching how "InstaPost" could have a really compelling offering along somewhat along this line, it'd be kid of ironic if Meta winds up doing it first lolsob.

@ArtBear @mike @tchambers @michael @IPEdmonton @chad
@jdp23 @marcelcosta @michael @tchambers @ArtBear @IPEdmonton @chad I tend to view instances like towns or cities. You have small villages with a few members, as well as larger cities like the larger instances. I can interact with them all the same before retreating back to my tiny house on a hill (my solo instance).

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