not true

@Nora Qudus
What is your quibble to make a undefined dismissive statement?

You being literal about chains? Because the founders very much intended slavery and codified the whole three fifths concept....

still not true @Amanda (she/they) get your facts right before you paint everyone with judgmental angst about people dead 300 years.

still did not explain how this is not true.

All you did with that comment was an ad hominem.

it is not true because it is not true....1 the entire group of some 300 men did not all intend to keep anyone in chains. 2. NOT all the founders had slaves nor trafficked in slaves. 3. Slavery is justified in the Bible and if a person of color is still a christian then they also cherry pick what parts of their holy book they chose to believe...4 this fiat statement is meant for disinformation the writer wants to sound like she is knowable but shows she is just a knee-jerk illiterate ...she has not read history (primary sources especially) to understand the mind set of the times. As you and Clara are rather judgmental in everything you post as if it were true just because you want it to be true...that statement is not true and with the entire internet at your fingers it is not for me to do your research unless you do not care for truth only of sensationalism.

Read: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jul/09/kayleigh-mcenany/fact-checking-kayleigh-mcenanys-claim-all-our-main/

that is an interesting article but ignores the fact that slavery was legal at the time, justified by their religion, and the part about slavery was removed because the southern delegation refused to sign unless the part about slavery was removed if the declaration was not signed then we would then be just another Commonwealth country ...I am not for slavery. What I see is judgement of the past with rules from the present. Why bitch about men from 300 years ago and not ACT about the assholes making life miserable NOW. Whining about the past is counter productive and creates ignorance since many people(here !!) are illiterate and only know what they google online...

I was just trying to introduce some facts into this argument.

@Nora Qudus
Just because the founders bought into the justifications of the day for owning slaves does not make them innocent of the choice.

Sure, not all of them were slave owners, but they created the culture of what was acceptable in this country and took the wrong stance on that issue. It became so baked into how our country functions that it is reflected in all the systems of government.

Amazing how a bad choice at the beginning becomes an epic, entrenched problem later.

Those things happened. I will not make apologies for folks 300 years ago when they did that shit.

The point of the original post is that a lot of conservatives justify their opinions by pointing to the intentions of a set of people who lived a few hundred years ago.

The founders may have been brilliant in many ways, and they may have been wise, but they also were flawed human beings whose beliefs and actions were a reflection of their times. And that's fine because all of us create our opinions by the world around us.

The issue is with the assertion that, essentially, ONLY the opinions of the founding fathers matters... as interpreted by the speaker. And somehow that opinion always agrees with the speaker's personal view. (To paraphrase Elizabeth Cady Stanton, you can safely assume you’ve created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.)

So if someone is going to claim, "This is what the Founders intended!" it also is relevant to point out that the world already had changed since that time. The founders did not intend (or least expect) for women to vote. They did not expect slaves to become free. They did not foresee social and technology changes -- how could they?

However, by the fact of creating the constitution as a living document that could be amended in their (true) genius they created a democracy that was capable of change. In truth, THAT is the clearest view of the founder's intent: That human society changes, and that our country changes along with it... whatever I personally think of those changes. That's a mighty powerful thing, and it deserves to be applauded.

I think that @Esther Schindler has cut though all the noise there to the real issues very effectively.

Thanks, @Adam Hunt! 😀

Credit where due!